Today in this interview of the legendary Steve Toof we’ll be talking about his chat cheapy aiso workflows it’s going to be a master class on how to use chat GPT Gem and I will be talking about link building some of the best ways to use AI

Safely and also some of his best tactics and haacks to rank number one with SEO let’s go so what’s your take on the Google update so far it seems like this tsunami has come and Google is definitely exercising their fear uncertainty and doubt to the maximum

Degree but if you’ve been in SEO long enough you’ve seen those types of actions and I think even though people are a bit shaken on this one and rightfully as time goes on we’ll learn to adapt what have you seen so farly it’s early days what have you seen so

Far if I could just take a step back from that there’s obviously tons of chatter and tons of people with pretty legit sites getting dindex not only the ones who are you know really abusing things I have a lot of sympathy for for those people but I think when it comes to

Google they’re they’re they they have this big huge problem on their hands right if every result on page one is AI and reads like a robot Reddit that’s a threat to their public perception and that’s something that has been unprecedented in terms of things they have to worry about and they’re not

Going to be able to quote unquote catch everybody who uses a AI content and not every instance of AI content is necessarily a bad experience but Google’s never been threatened this way ever and and I think they wanted to send a message and that’s what they did yeah

That makes sense and have you got any examples of sites that are really high quality but have taken a bit of here I looked at Travel lemming that’s one that I had on my radar back when I was working for a competitor of theirs and the site pretty you look at that site

And it’s pretty quality I I’d say that would be one example of one that that suffered an unfortunate fate W to check that out definitely yeah I think we should come on to some ways humanize the content and improve the quality later in this interview a lot of

People are asking is aiso dead I think the what’s going to die is like people who are lazy there’s probably a lot of people just hitting the Run button on whatever AI content tool there is and not even reading the output I think that’s just a recipe for disaster and a

Stupid thing to do nonetheless whether you’re going to get caught on Google or not that’s not a a good long-term strategy for your website I don’t think AI content is dead AI is a starting point it can be refined it can be improved depending on how good you are

At prompting it can also sound indistinguishable from Human written content so I don’t think so but I think the mass pages where you’re not even looking at the content that you’re releasing I think that’s the stuff that’s going to be like number one on Google’s Hit List yeah that makes sense

If you look like you look at like fresher live like I I heard it’s back but even their titles if they’re like talking about a person it’s like how tall are they what is their weight what is their birthday and that’s like the title is like literally just like three

Questions right it’s like pretty like garbage to be honest and that’s the kind of stuff that really hurts the public like I said again the public perception of Google that person going to the search results and being like this is absolute that’s the stuff that they I think have to really address

If they’re going to remain a viable source of a viable method of research for so many people who’ve now been disillusioned if you look at Reddit and you do site search Reddit Google sucks or stuff like that like it’s all over the place right there’s just so much

Sentiment out there that smart educated people are actually losing their faith in Google what do you think is the best way to use AI for SEO then definitely just enhancing your workflows even just before this call I was in in chat GPT and I asked it for synonyms for software

So it came up with platform tools um solution different things like system things like that and then my next question was create me a re2 Rex that contains all of those phrases in them and then I go to search console I put that in and now I have real data in

Terms of how people are describing my SAS client software it just it it really enhances your workflows makes you a million times more efficient you can take that anywhere you can take it to spreadsheets you can take it to rejects you can to do if you’re coding with it

There’s really no limit but I think just asking like I’ve seen complete nonsense on LinkedIn where people are like chat GPT write me an article that will rank on Google like that kind of people are doing the easy button it’s pretty much good for anything else but that

Yeah that makes sense would you even say that the strength of chat GPT is content creation or would you say it’s the data and the things that you can do with the data around your workflows yeah I don’t love it for Content creation I’ve done lots of

Testing I had a note and something that I called tone optimization where I essentially asked I did a comparison between Gemini and advanced in chat gbt and said give me like three tones that I could or give me 10 tones that I could adopt to write X topic then I picked the

Three tones I liked use a primary secondary and tertiary tone and uh chat GPD was just awful at that uh but whereas Gemini Advance did a much better job and basically produced indistinguishable content I think one of the cool things about chat gbt is actually creating tools and even

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WordPress slice really good at that right yeah I remember you did a video on my book bookmark L stuff yeah that was one of my first videos actually blew up I think so thanks to you yeah awesome glad to see it how do you feel about the

Future of SEO in general for example a lot of people worried n sites are over the the 16 sites that are actually dominating Google in terms of search traffic what are your expectations there I have positioned myself in such a way to work with SAS companies and these are

Companies that are well funded and uh have resources to hire very good writers and also invest in excellent SEO and all that kind of stuff I I think there’s a lot of long-term viability in in B2B especially uh but when it comes to Niche sites and like you said Glenn’s article

About the 16 companies that dominate Google it’s a pretty tough game if you just look at the keywords that you want to rank for if you have a site about camping tents or whatever and you put that into a tool like keyword. comom share voice and you look at who’s

Ranking it’s going to be pretty tough to crack the top 10 of that share of voice right and even there’s this morning I actually released a note with a link to a video that Google produced in 2019 called a trillion searches no easy answers and in the middle of that video

Somewhere they’re interviewing the search engineers and he just straight up said like Authority is the solution to getting rid of lowquality content in the serps right so just favoring the health lines and the web MDS and all those huge mega sites of the world and they’re also

Producing content at a mass scale and getting rewarded so it’s a bit tough but at the SEO Mastery Summit I’m going to be talking about how to crack that sort of B2B SAS industry in terms of what you need to do to be a consultant in that

Space and hopefully we’ll be able to help some people people do just that nice and do you prefer to use cat GPT or what’s your favorite AI model right now I’m experimenting with Gemini Advanced heavily I don’t know I just I really like it I’m obviously a bit like I’m

Dancing with the the devil that can take take me down but I really like Gemini Advanced for things like research right for example right now with our clients I just asked our project manager to show me like all the trends that happening in each of the client’s Industries and and

Gemini Advance is just really excellent for that kind of stuff where it’s able to tap the web a lot more easily natively than than chat GPT and and come up with and also corroborate its answers with the web I’m a fan of Gemini right now but I’ll still use chat GPT as well

And then and then yeah there’s other obviously other models too like Claude that that I actually just got access to I’m looking forward to trying that Claude is really good actually it’s very smart and also the context window is massive they did some tests where for

Example they gave chat GPT a large block of text and then put a little sort of needle in the Hy stack test to check the content and then they tested that versus Claude and Claude is a lot better at dealing with big context Windows also when I’ve tested the content in terms of

AI detection which a lot of people don’t care about when you actually test it Claude usually comes out as 100% human it’s pretty crazy yeah I I’ve been impressed with it thus far but actually there were like a lot of issues getting it in Canada for some reason where I’m

At yeah so just starting to play with it now have you seen any examples of websites that did really well during the core update so far obviously again it’s early days but I have to look at like some of the that Lily Ray put out

That on she put out on LinkedIn I don’t know if I have one to be honest other than Reddit in LinkedIn do you have any worries of being Ted publicly if I’m being completely Frank and honest I am there’s no doubt that if you were Google you have unlimited resources

Don’t you think you’d have people in every Facebook group watching videos monitoring things and just keeping tabs on what’s going on I me be foolish for them not to do that so I’m pretty careful and measured when I recommend stuff and I’ve also been pretty consciously not promoting any AI SEO

Tools not because I don’t think that they’re good but because I don’t want to be responsible for someone misusing them and getting themselves in trouble what do you think is safe to talk about what do you think is not safe to talk about definitely AI is still safe it’s you’d

Be foolish not to leverage AI every day in your workflow so I have no problems talking about it for enhancing content analizing content telling me what topics I could be adding to my content um if I’m looking at my topic map to asking asking it to fill this out and explore

New areas I think that the things that are you know not safe is obviously anything overtly black hat talking about links I think there’s still a conversation that needs to be done about links and SEO notebook in January we dedicated an an entire month to to link

Building tactics so I know a lot of White House seos are not going to even touch links but as long as you’re not like go to this resource and buy this link and like giving people instructions on how to do all that I think you’re still pretty safe to talk about it what

Do you expect from Google in the future more of this to be honest there like I think that on this case in in this in this last update they likely found Footprints uh on people’s websites things that are like overt mistakes right as an AI language model kind of

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Content and and finding that and just making a quick list and penalizing those sites pretty severely I’m not saying that every site that got hit did that but that would be a very scalable way to to send a message from Google I think that they’ll probably continue to crack

Down on smaller sites using mass AI content it’s very easy for them to look at the publishing schedule of a website and be like is that even possible with human written content and we just can’t believe anything that they say either they said themselves in their documentation AI content is not against

Google’s guidelines and then look at what they did I think that any SEO needs to really take all their stuff with a grain of salt and I think that the circles that we operate in that’s common knowledge but I don’t I I think that there’s still a large contingent of

People who are naive to that and just listen and or Andor think that maybe this is the last heavy-handed update like like this but I can almost guarantee you that it’s not going to be yeah that makes sense what about when it comes to link building then how would

You recommend getting backlinks my series on link building came up with a ton of amazing link building tactics I think the one that I like best was from a guy named Muhammad Abid and he basically said you can go and purchase a link on one website and then approach

Another site and say I can get you a link on this and then you have a three-way link exchange without actually owning the one one component of that three-way link exchange so I think that’s a pretty interesting thing because it can net you links on like

HubSpot and G2 and big sites like that yeah that’s an interesting one so like a freeway link exchange yeah except you don’t you there’s one component of that exchange that they’re literally just buying a build they’re not buying a link for themselves they’re buying a link for

The link the site that’s going to exchange that link so you’re technically not even buying a link for yourself and do you use any type of like PR link building or anything like that yeah definitely I partner with fery kazone so I’ve worked with search intelligence now

For two two years two and a half years and I’ve also known faery for a very long time both him and I started out our businesses in 2020 and zoomed in stuff like that before we really achieved a lot of success and grew together it’s been amazing to see his journey and his

Influence on LinkedIn in particular and uh he’s also been a great partner to SEO notebook he has literally advertised in SEO notebook for about a year and a half every week I have a really great relationship with him and I I really can can’t recommend his service highly

Enough how are you getting backlinks with PR then we’re making like stories right essentially looking at a lot of the work actually stems from creating stories based on on search Trends right we were working with a crypto client and when Elon Musk bought Twitter the searches for Dogecoin spiked up right so we

Basically released a statement for that and then we got picked up by like the street and really heavy hitting Finance websites and and crypto websites and and then they link to us because we’re the source of that information and before you create any content do you have any

AI workflows that you recommend whether it’s for content outlines keyword research this sort of thing yeah definitely we what we do is we essentially collect different headings and with like from the serp as well you know rewarding them and taking different concepts that are being discussed on the

Ser and creating headings for those and then mixing that with headings that we have from Ai and then we use a prompt to essentially order those headings Into The Logical content outline and and that’s what we’ve had a lot of success with that’s cool and do you use it for

Keyword research to yes and no I’ll use it to fill out a keyword list personally I love Google Search console especially obviously you have to have traffic and Impressions and stuff like that but I love Google Search console as a starting point so for example that rex that I

Mentioned earlier on that can give you like Myriad ways of describing a SAS product once you have all those descriptions you can take that to chat GPT or gemini or whatever llm you’re using using and ask it to come up with similar keywords for that I’m also an

HFS user still an HF user I know that there’s a lot of people who haven’t who who’ve uh disbanded from HRS but I’m still an HRS user and yeah we also really leverage that highly in terms of keyword research thing is and then I’m sorry again one more thing as well I

Can’t not mention Google as being like one of the go you know greatest of all time tools of keyword research we’re right now just automating one of my notes to do some like incredible stuff in terms of scraping the auto suggest and not just the auto suggest that’s

Obvious but actually what we do is Google the main keyword and then in that same session we delete that keyword and we start typing words like what is how should when does and then Google starts feeding you all these related keywords to that keyword that you originally

Typed in and and it’s just absolute gold mine and then people also ask related searches and whatnot I heavily leverage Google for keyword research and then I use chat to to refine it isolate it pair it up and select only the relevant ones and then when it comes to content

Creation one thing I saw for example on your dating website was you have everything laid out on one page like a huge guide but then you can click through to different sections of it right you try and answer everything but inside one guide yeah essentially so that that website’s called the match

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Artist.com and on the left left hand side so what we do is have like basically silos for all the major apps so we have one for hinge Bumble Tinder Etc and then on that leftand sidebar we’ve got individual articles like best first text on Twi Tinder uh what are the

Best photos for Tinder and stuff like that and then the user ends up on that page and then they just click around because they see all this relevant content to them so I’ve used that uh strategy on um another site called brain station it works extremely well and yeah

We just try to comprehensively answer all those questions and what we also did with that and leveraging AI was we took we took all the intake survey so that site focuses on online dating photography and we they every time they have a prospect and a new client come on

They essentially fill out a survey on all their pain points and whatnot there’s frustrations with online dating and all that so we fed that into Advanced Data analysis inck GPT and basically asked it to analyze what are all like the popular pain points that their customers have and and then work

That into the content awesome and then post content creation do you have any tips for leveraging AI yeah um I’ve actually got a note called Post article prompts some of the different things in there where Matt Diggity popularized the idea of looking at Google helpful content guidelines and asking chat to

Essentially read my article and then help reference it against the Google helpful content guidelines and give me suggestions on on how that can be used little things like that fact checking in the Articles we used to do FAQ schema but obviously that doesn’t work anymore so there’s yeah I think there’s 10

Prompts in total in that note and it’s yeah that would be like our our process for once the article is written that makes sense and then you don’t use the FAQ schemer anymore when I look in my search console it’s been severely deprecated right we’re just not getting

The Impressions that we were getting previously yeah we’re not currently using it awesome oh there’s some great tips yeah definitely I think what we’ll do as well is we’ll get the transcript from this video and then take some of the workflows you’ve mentioned and put

It into an sap that people can get at the end so that’ be really good sounds is there anything else you want to say before you go on no just thanks for having me on I’ve obviously known about you and I also congratulate you on the success of your channel you’ve really

Done something truly remarkable so honored to be a guest thank you and what’s the best way to get in touch with you I know see you’ve got the newsletter yeah seon notebook.com is pretty much where I direct everybody I email out one actionable piece of strategy like the

One that Julian mentioned in his book bookmarklets video so every Tuesday at 9:30 a.m. eastern time you’ll receive an email from me and my goal with SEO notebook is always to give you something actionable that you can try the same day that will have a a great effect on your

Website there’s been so many uh amazing stories of people who’ve implemented my strategies if you look at the site test sigma.com see he implemented pretty much one note per week and uh just exploded the traffic on that website I love obviously hearing that as I’m sure you

Do as well when people actually put your advice into action super rewarding SE notebook comom is great Den is also awesome Steve Toth to and Facebook as well awesome all right thanks very much being on yeah not too active on Twitter have an account but just don’t go there

Too often any reason why I can imagine but it’s just a lot of work like I’m pretty happy with what I have right now we’re doing really well as an agency and I’m just busy enough so I don’t really feel the need to have to go to another

Platform when I’m already super happy with what I’m doing yeah that’s it and you’ve done a great job man massive audience so good on you thanks man all right cheers in all right take care bye bye so thanks so much for watching if you want to check out Steve to his

Website is available at seon notebook.com and you can get a free newsletter out there I’ve also taken the transcript from to dat and then turned it into some useful prompts and workflows Steve T style based on what he said and you can get that for free links

In the comments and description and if you to check out my chat gbt SEO course as well we’ve got loads of prompts on keyword research internal links SEO link building topical Maps knee selection E8 and we’re also starting to build out a new aiso quality control section including Steve’s prompts right there

Now if you do want to book in a free SEO strategy session about how to get more lease traffic and sales and we can answer any questions you have directly on the call and you’ll get an SEO domination plus you’ll discover the secrets of Link building you learn the

Best link building strategy for your website and you’ll discover how to cre our key competitors for link if you want to book that in feel free to check it out thanks so much for watching appreciate it bye-bye


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